Topic: Troop error

Yes its me.. I'm playing this round and I have found that there is an error in troop calculations. I received this from a friend

    Attacking (xxx      Defending (1:xxx)    Yours
Ship:    Total    Lost    Total    Lost    Total    Lost
scout    151    0    0    0    0    0
transport    1200    0    0    0    0    0
barge    386    0    0    0    0    0
ripper    600    0    0    0    0    0
cordova    50    0    0    0    0    0
continental    0    0    0    0    0    0
fortress    0    0    0    0    0    0
dominator    0    0    0    0    0    0
troops    264123    60562    106250    106250    106250    106250

Weak troops vs. Excellent troops. HOW did the weak troops win?

Now.. PENDING ON RACE: The attacker is mossopp with weak attack and the defender is a Rog.

If I missed something let me know.. cuz he just lost a massive amount of mines. Thanks

Re: Troop error

Troop strength is not a major factor unless the troop counts are relatively close. 
I.E. 540,000 weak vs. 500,000 excellent, there excellent would win

Also usually a defender is able to inflict half his total troops defending damage on the attacker in one tick.
I.E. with 100,000 he should take out 50k in the first tick.
Because he has excellent troops, he did slightly more damage.

Now the attacker is then able to usually inflict damage on the enemy up to about half of his total troop score.  So here he has 264k and destroys the 106k within the first hour.

So I don't think there is in fact anything wrong, its just that excellent troops really don't matter if you are horribly outnumbered.  Weak attack vs. average defense really doesn't come into play either as that deals with the fleets.  I believe that covers your question.

There's always a Dark Knight after a long day.

Re: Troop error

Run it through your troop calculator. I have two. Both read the same thing.

Re: Troop error

I don't have a troop calculator, but I have seen evidence that this is the way things work.  Perhaps it has changed since when you last played, but here are several battle reports showing the evidence of my point.

Attacking                  Defending     Yours
Ship:    Total    Lost    Total    Lost    Total    Lost
scout    57    7    3    3    1    1
transport    240    0    0    0    50    0
barge    160    0    0    0    55    0
ripper    110    0    0    0    0    0
cordova    0    0    0    0    0    0
continental    0    0    0    0    0    0
fortress    0    0    0    0    0    0
dominator    0    0    0    0    0    0
troops    27155    2273    4348    4348    8000    688

As you can see here, there was 4000+ defending, which were average, and they took out 2000 or half their number.

Attacking (1:xxx)    Defending (1:xxx)    Yours
Ship:    Total    Lost    Total    Lost    Total    Lost
scout    21    21    100    19    21    21
transport    80    5    0    0    80    5
barge    100    0    0    0    100    0
ripper    31    7    10    5    31    7
cordova    0    0    0    0    0    0
continental    0    0    0    0    0    0
fortress    0    0    0    0    0    0
dominator    0    0    0    0    0    0
troops    16000    2109    3500    3500    16000    2109

And once again the same.

I have numerous other examples, and they all show the same thing.  So either your troop calculator is off, or it is set for a different rate than exists currently during this round.

There's always a Dark Knight after a long day.

Re: Troop error

Two calculators made by extreme players in the game, wouldn't make the calculators wrong. They have not changed the way troops work since i last played.

Re: Troop error

Yet it also wouldn't necessarily make them correct.  Just because they are extreme players does not mean they can't make mistakes.  And ctrl+alt+delete, this is the way I have seen troops work while I've been playing, and I can safely say I have been playing the last three or four rounds, and seen these same results.  So, I may be wrong here, but all the evidence I have looked at supports my theory.  If you have any counter-evidence I would love to see it, and we could assess this together.

There's always a Dark Knight after a long day.

Re: Troop error

http://forums.alliancewars.com/viewtopic.php?id=4557   <--- This is from a while ago




Attacking (x:xxx) Defending (x:xxx) Yours
Ship:     Total     Lost     Total     Lost     Total     Lost
scout     10999     722     1600     1600     1600     1600
transport     3500     1028     330     330     330     330
barge     900     14     11     11     11     11
ripper     4500     0     2286     1066     2286     1066
cordova     300     0     17     17     17     17
continental     0     0     0     0     0     0
fortress     0     0     0     0     0     0
dominator     0     0     0     0     0     0
troops     932954     321929     559877     396505     559877      396505


Attacking (x:xxx) Defending (x:xxx) Yours
Ship:                Total     Lost     Total     Lost     Total     Lost
scout              10278      0         0         0          0          0
transport          2472      549      0        0           0          0
barge                886        0         0         0        0            0
ripper              4500        0      1220     1220    1220     1220
cordova            300         0         0         0          0          0
continental         0            0         0        0          0           0
fortress             0            0         0        0          0             0
dominator         0            0         0        0           0            0
troops            611025   93939   163372   163372   163372   163372

Re: Troop error

Hmm, well the first one doesn't follow my half theory, but the second one certainly supports it, with the 160k taking out nearly half of their troop count.

But the first one is a real doosey, can't explain it.  Well, I guess you made your point, not sure then what is up with troops unless your example is the one where the error occurred.

Not sure about what is going on, but I still think my theory applies as a sort of rough guesstimate of troop losses.

There's always a Dark Knight after a long day.

Re: Troop error

I agree with Dark Knight on this one. Those troop calculators are old -_-

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Beta 0.8e: Stark of Westeros 1:674 Rank: 9, Numer 6 Ogarth; Havoc, rank: 3, Speed #1, rank: 3
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Re: Troop error

You're just out to get me..

11 (edited by Revan I 2008-07-22 16:09:06)

Re: Troop error

I have played as a Rogorate in the past and well I had some bad nights trying to get around how/why I lost so many troops. Looking through some of screenshots and battle reports now as a baleenar. Dark Knight's guesstimations are rather correct- 38k poor defending troops died but still took out 18,241 avg troops. That if I am not mistaken is close to 2:1 ratio while excellent is clocked at 3:1- so in theory if the attacking troops were excellent- only 12k would have been lost.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r194/revan098/troopsa.jpg

Remember to raise the bar but do not give into astonishment.

Re: Troop error

I have not seen that excellent troops have a 3:1 ratio, it seems as if all troops destroy in roughly a 10:5 ratio if average vs average, while excellent vs average is more of a 10:5.5, and excellent vs poor is more of a 10:6.  But that it merely what I have seen.  The troop status really doesn't matter as much as some people think.  In close battles where one person has 100%, and the other person has 85-100% of the other's count, then the troop status carries weight, but other than that it really has no great decision in the battle.  But then again I'm a bit new to this game, only playing for about 5 rounds now, so I could easily be wrong.

There's always a Dark Knight after a long day.

Re: Troop error

I thought the ratios(not always exact close to or far from in some bizarre cases)

Exc vs Poor- 3:1       Avg vs Avg 1:1
Exc vs Avg- 2:1        Avg vs. Poor 2:1
Exc vs Exc- 1:1        Poor vs. Poor 1:1

Now I'll have to go rummaging through some of my stuff- to find some old calculators. I never really trusted troop calculators- always found that the ship guesstimates were easier to manage.

Remember to raise the bar but do not give into astonishment.

Re: Troop error

Exactly. The BR from the very beginning was poor vs. excellent a 3:1 ratio. Explain that one

Re: Troop error

The most simple calculation of troop battles has alwasy been (and continues to be in any battle report I've seen) that defending troops first kill half their number against attacking troops (slightly higher or lower depending on troops quality, but nothing overly significant). Then the attacking troops kill half their number against defending troops (again, slightly high or lower depending on troop quality).

I see nothing wrong with that battle report. In my opinion, if your troop calculator is telling you something different, then a)it doesn't work or b) you're using it wrong. Either way, just do it in your head smile

<Zerth> scouts aren't ships
<Zerth> they are balsa wood gliders with elastic band guns
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Re: Troop error

I used the one Troj left and one that I have had from the very beginning, that up till now has been around 95% accurate

17 (edited by Emuk 2008-08-19 19:25:27)

Re: Troop error

If your refering to the one jackflash made, it was 100% correct.

If so...it is also made many rounds ago.

Re: Troop error

Aye, thats the one